Evidence of Eternity (Discussion)

[Haru'Shimo]

This thread is intended for the more spiritually minded, and those who are either experienced and/or in pursuit of validation in that area.

The Goal:
Gather documentation, accounts, theories, and evidence of the existence of spirit through collaborative research, discussion, testing, and experimentation.

I would like to advise one stipulation to posting theories, however:
- Please provide as thorough reasoning and explanation as possible.
(Anyone can Google search and Copy/Paste things from other sites, and that doesn't help us here. As the mature members of the forums, I'm sure we can manage better than that, and provide at least the reasoning you feel the explanation is valid.)

[Deleted]

before my son passed I felt the room around us it had cold pockets as if spirits were watching then the atmosphere in the room changed from a stressed to a calm and relaxed then my son took his last breath then the cold pockets were gone. and up until that point we kept feeling touches and hearing voices and seeing mists and shadows this is enough evidence to me that shows there is an eternity after death.

[G.D.]

Well, I didn't quite know that this thread existed. Seeing as it's been revived I'll go ahead and spout some word salad on this corpse.

Gather documentation, accounts, theories, and evidence of the existence of spirit through collaborative research, discussion, testing, and experimentation.

The overall goal of this thread is explained well, but I feel that this line is capable of summing up nearly all research and data available on the spiritual. While scientific means have been employed to belie the nature of the non-physical, we have limited data in that arena. In fact, most if not all constants and accepted sources of data are based entirely on a number of individual and ultimately unverifiable personal experiences. These experiences are just had by a certain number of people. From experimentation, observation, and collaboration we are able to define certain theories and 'known laws' about what we have come to know as magic and the metaphysical. And yet these collaborations are still made up solely of a person's singular experiences and their interpretations of them.

Then how, exactly, do we verify the existence of something that is unverifiable to the scientific world?

Very carefully, that's how. I may or may not admit to being a bit of a smart ass with that line. But in reality, collaboration and the sharing of familiar and identifiable experiences are one of the only true ways to gain some understanding of the bigger picture when it comes down to a topic like this. Sometimes it takes being extremely patient and withdrawn. One of the methods I have used for nearly ten years now is allowing or coercing others to explain and submit their experiences and theories without any sort of provocation on my end. While I too have done study and experimentation, I like to withhold my data so that the opposite party is not predisposed or led into a certain arena when giving their account. This helps make sure that their opinions and recollection of their experiences are not corrupted by my own individual reality. This is one of the only ways I will trust a source's information and consider it fair game to compare to my own data. If you happen to discover constants this way, you can at the very least be 80% sure that the experiences they are presenting are unique to themselves. Knowing this, finding experiences that are similar or that may mirror others in the world is where you can begin drawing the lines from A to B and so on.

And for this reasoning above I do not have nor do I trust online sources of information regarding the metaphysical. Not only are these websites and sources (most of the time, not all) spearheaded by zealous individuals with the intent in mind to mold others to their specific realities, the websites can also sometimes be a conglomerate of 'wtf'. Especially when you have five or six individuals doing that very thing all at once. There's also no limitation in what other people can mold and abuse to fit their individual delusions.

Always be wary of people who do not openly discuss their beliefs. They generally fall into the same type of mentality about it that serves as an easy tell for others. "I"m not allowed to talk about that", "It's not within my power/control", "It's safer if you do not know". All of these right here are red flags. It generally presents a scenario in which the individual has found a very specific and self fulfilling idea of what's going on around them, and they'll do anything to prevent that sort of self created bubble from shattering. It means they are only in it for self gratification and perpetuation on individualistic fantasies.

Where exactly that individual draws from to form these delusions can be just about anything... you find that a lot of the time people latch on to not only myth and fantasy, but common platforms for fantasy in our modern age. I can't tell you the amount of times I've run into someone who's idea of the void stemmed directly from dungeons and dragons or world of warcraft. Simply because no one can say 'no'.

Anyways, all of the above is in part why I do not trust a lot of online sources for correct and genuine information regarding the non-physical. They're not bound by burden of truth, and people presume that if something is on the internet it must be true. All of these things combined can help only lengthen the run of that person's individual fantasy. Younger people who simply do not know any better often buy in to something that sounds flashy, scary, or downright 'cool'. And they don't find out until much later in their lives that hey... there's a whole bloody world outside of this one guy's idea of it.

Discourse about spirituality is often times extremely hard due to this. People want to protect their ideals and can become not only quite defensive, but downright aggressive in the face of something that challenges their beliefs. We see this often enough with verifiable scientific data and theories about things that are very much physical. That aggression is only intensified when you are laid about a platform that has no true 'yes or no' to it. Thus, this is why we must be diligent and willing to share, express, and compare ideas. Otherwise we can become victim to the type of behavior and mentality above. Limiting not only ourselves, but all those who may come into contact with our writings. So, in short there's several things that must be openly said about the non-physical and all concepts associated with it.

1. We likely have no real idea what's going on, no matter who we are, what we experience, or how long we go about doing this.
2. We can't prove or disprove anything. We can only collect experiences and form patterns from those shared experiences.
3. We should encourage regular and thorough discourse with the intent to explore the boundaries of what we know, not seek to disprove them outright.
4. We are not Helpless/Powerless/Bound.

In terms of my own experiences I suppose I can try and share a few. I'll have to put some thought into remembering some good ones, but y'know how that goes. I can recount my life's shenanigans all day long when it's just shooting the breeze. But once it becomes important to my mind turns into mush.

Our individualistic experiences are, of course, real to us. Because we are experiencing them. We are feeling, thinking, and going through the motions of being bombarded by not only feelings we can't place, but the life changes that may or may not result of that experience. So in terms of what is right or wrong or truth or lie, it's hard to stay when it comes down to a personal level. I am feeling something, so it is real. However... it then comes down to how I place my experiences.

What life experiences, what information, and what concepts will I from here on out attached to that experience?

This is an extremely important part of the discovery process.

We as beings are naturally predisposed to physical concepts. We currently exist in a physical state of being and therefore are naturally subject to think from a physical point of view. Not only physical, but also a human point of view. Colors, Words, Symbols, Ideas, Types of Life. When we attach any and all of these to non-physical concepts, we're already applying a form of bias to our experiences. Something we simply cannot help. Yet, it must be understood and acknowledged. Not only will we never experience the non-physical in full, we will always be at fault when attempting to rationalize and process the foreign stimuli we are being exposed to. Not only that, the objects or beings that may come to mind in reference to our experiences can mean 1,000 different things instead of one. Yet we are mammals and, sometimes, very literal thinkers. Especially if you simply don't know that you shouldn't be so literal in reference to these things, aha.

We are still naturally at fault, though. This partially raises a question about the legitimacy of our understanding of the non-physical. As it's processed and experienced through the human condition, is it from then on naturally and forever tainted by such? But I suppose I'll refrain from going further down that rabbit hole.

Anyways, what I experience is by default subject to my understanding of the world and how I relate to it. How I from there on out attempt to relay my experiences will be by default individualistic to me, but I can still find common and shared ground in other's experiences. This is how you start connecting the dots. It takes a certain kind of mind to delve into the figurative depths of what exactly we are going through and feeling when we experience the metaphysical. A mentality that is not particularly common nor encouraged in today's society. This is where a lot of misinformation comes from. A person will simply attach to the first image, thought, or feeling given to them and seek no further. Doing themselves a disservice but also their experience and anyone who may try to learn from them.

I was supposed to be talking about my experiences... Someone kick me into gear.

I do apologize for my tendency to branch into certain tangents. I will try to give some of my own experiences that help me ground myself in the ever churning sea of doubt.

Two instances I can recall of shared experience without provocation were two group sessions I had with some acquaintances back in Washington. The first was a guided meditation done for the winter solstice and the other a group meditation. Which was intended to connect ourselves to certain personified sources in search of information and guidance.

On both instances I withheld my experiences on purpose. Allowing another party to give their own individual account of what had transpired before comparing their experience to my own. Building some form of critical notion about the true reality of what happened thereafter. And, on both instances in that setting, the experiences of several others matched up near perfectly to my observations and encounter. There's also been random instances where I've picked up on the presence of a non-physical entity, withholding my awareness of it, and having others around me voice their acknowledgement of it's existence.

One of two things is happening here.

1. We're both sensitive to and aware of a non-physical presence.
2. We're both physically reacting to a change in environment that can provoke certain thought processes.

I would individually like to believe it was the former. Although my experience and time spent studying this phenomena overall is meaningful to me, it is still subjective and my experience, not another's. The other individual may become aware of the fact that I trust my senses and give time for thorough analysis, but they are still on their side of the mirror. And cannot fully comprehend nor share in my experience unless they have had their own. This not only creates a gap and can breed doubt (which is healthy in moderation), but it can create a sense of challenge when one's experiences do not meet up to their own.

But I guess in the end we'll never know the truth. Until we can provide a physical means for data collection the majority of us will have to suffice with this ever tedious task of collecting experiences. Based on individual accounts. It's not often the non-physical affects the physical in such a way that one can provide as physical and undeniable proof. And, even then, it must also be met with a healthy dose of skepticism unless there is some form of physical media that can relay the fact it's genuine. Even still, that is something that can be individually altered or created this days.

I trust in my awareness for I have spent a very long time defining it.

If there's too many open ended thoughts I apologize. It's a hard subject to condense down into a very minuscule forum post. But at the very least I have provided some substantial and genuine thought to a thread that was previously forgotten.

[Mariak]

Well...

I think, in life, there are certain experiences...certain choices. I can't claim that my own life has been charmed, yet maybe (just maybe) some of what I regard as evidence of the existence of a spiritual dimension will be a little helpful.

Halloween, 2016. I stopped to get gas. I opened the flap and out crawls a humongous black widow, bloated and revolting. Coincidence or cosmic joke?

I used to drive for a bread company, and folks would often leave random things they decided not to buy on the shelf after they took a loaf. On my birthday I found a bag of balloons there.

Twice dogs have been guiding stars. The first was an Irish Setter/ Golden Retriever who I regard as my real mother (Abby). She literally showed up on the doorstep, out of 'nowhere', went through hell and indescribable loneliness with me while I spent my childhood in a crack house, and was always by my side. She saved my life more than once.

Later on, Ambrose (same mix of dog) appeared the same way. I thought of him as a son, and we shared the hell that was the aftershocks of addiction, suffered through the tyranny of a broken mind. Again...more than once.

Both died of cancer, Abbey when I was taken away from my biological mother (I wasn't there and was too young to understand) and Ambrose from mast cell tumors. In the end one of those tumors grew to be the size of a softball, covered the right side of his face. His death was...let's call it a dark magnetism. It swung the compass of my so-called faith away from what the religious and in general the spiritual would call North.

Judging from what I can *sense*, I would have to argue that currently the realm (plain, dimension, mentality?) we all occupy is currently a gray area, that the beings that inhabit it are, as I would call it, provinces of the soul...each and every one of them in some way is key to victory for negative and positive powers (not gods in the conventional sense, as such, think of them as today's physicists think of 'black holes', merely centers of enormous gravity for...what they are). Maybe one individual means little, yet a thousand...a million...perhaps that collective power shouldn't be overlooked on a spiritual level, whether it marches under a banner of what we perceive as 'light' or 'darkness'. As any military commander in the world we know would tell you.

There's more to life than the senses can find, and not all of it fits conventional notions of karma or today's overarch of ancient and new-age religion, nor does life always conform to notions of justice and after-life recompense/retribution when it comes to suffering or righteousness or wickedness (in my opinion). Hell and Heaven's promises are both weak whispers in a place that by all rights would be judged insanity by anyone with the sanity and strength to accept it.

Put on the *full* armor of God. Some security guard had sown a patch with that phrase to his bullet proof vest, and below it was a stylized stitch of a Knight Templar in plate mail. This guard had a glock strapped to his hip and handcuffs too, and I found myself thinking about how little times have truly changed, or ever will.

Each of us are presented with a choice. We have to choose whether to believe that what we find when we walk the road of life is influenced by forces greater than ourselves or whether it's the consequence of infinity mechanized, some cruel machine that manufactures chaos.

Another 'thing' often not considered is that infinity, and eternity, allows more than one reality to exist at once by the defaults of its nature, which could in and of itself explain the paradoxes often presented by the monotheistic dogmas of myriad religions.

In a dark twist that also means the 'science before soul' theory could be equally right. I choose to think otherwise.

Maybe choice is the heart of the 'argument', and each of us has some small power to move what may seem a mountain.