Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 0:27:30 GMT
I really think there should be an adult section on the forums. I feel a little restrained on the subjects that we can bring up on the forum and I find myself unable to connect with the other members since some of them are so young. I think having an adult section would release the bindings on some of the censorship we have here and get the older members to relate and communicate more with others around their age.
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Kasumi Noxumbra
- Otherkin - Animal Mix
Mythical Beast Spectral Draconic Wolf Hybrid
Just don't know what to do........every effort almost feels wasted
Posts: 2,441
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Post by Kasumi Noxumbra on May 11, 2014 0:32:12 GMT
I have to say no on this one. The reasoning behind the censorship is because we've got members that are under the age of 18, but over 13 here.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 0:33:23 GMT
I am sure there is some way of locking people underage out of the section? That is why I brought it up in the first place.
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Haru'Shimo
- Otherkin - Mythical Beast
Mythical Beast Winged Kirin
"The world as you know it barely exists, for you know next to nothing about it."
Posts: 608
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Post by Haru'Shimo on May 11, 2014 0:40:11 GMT
RULES Updated May. 08, 2014 About this Forum. We are a Community based on separating the real views of Therianthropy and Otherkin Belief from the unrealistic ideas that have accumulated around the sub-culture. As Re stated when she founded this forum, this is a place created for the Expressed purpose of seeking answers and truths about what we are, why we are, and what (if anything) that means for us. The LAST thing this site needs is to turn into yet another RP/Furry hangout.
As far as censorship and topic restrictions, there is a Minimum Age Limit of 13 to use Proboards as a whole. Age is not why there are limitations on topics discussed here. The Rules are to help keep this forum a place where people can come for as legitimate a source of answers as can exist for our state of being.
I'm certain all the Moderators and the Admin will agree with me 100% when I say, this forum will not have an "Adult Section" so long as mature Therians/Otherkin maintain it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 0:44:53 GMT
I meant nothing about pornographic subjects. I meant the language, and of conversation other adults can relate to. Maybe you both misunderstood what I was saying, but forgive me if what I said angered you. It was not my intentions to have an adult xxx section, I wanted a section for adults to talk and relate rather than having younger forum members stepping in. I guess I did not specify and I really didn't think anyone would automatically think of dirty rp/furry role play. I am honestly offended in a way that anyone would automatically think that is what I was going for. I do ask for respect and translation on the matter rather than jumping to conclusions.
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Haru'Shimo
- Otherkin - Mythical Beast
Mythical Beast Winged Kirin
"The world as you know it barely exists, for you know next to nothing about it."
Posts: 608
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Post by Haru'Shimo on May 11, 2014 0:54:44 GMT
I'm not angry at all, just making that point clear.
As for a section that 'prevents' anyone under a certain age from participating, there's little we can do about that for a couple reasons: 1) There's nothing we can do to validate a user's age or prevent them from lying about it when they make an account. 2) There are just as many "Mentally Mature" people under the age of say, 20, as there are completely immature adults well over 20.
I completely understand the desire to have an area for more 'mature conversation' and less intrusion by younger kin who are here more to 'hang out' than to get anywhere or do anything productive. I wish it were that simple. ^_^;
Unfortunately, the best we can do is try to ensure the members who are here are worth the time to speak with, and enforce the rules to prevent others from annoying the rest of us for too long. Admittedly things have been probably a bit too 'lax' on the forums lately, but several of us are working to correct that before it gets any further out of hand.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 0:57:30 GMT
Oh yes certainly! I have found a quite a bit intellectual and wonderful people on the forum. I just felt like I needed to clear my name, rather than being viewed as a pig. I completely understand, I just thought it would have been a great idea.
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Doppel
- Otherkin - Mythical Beast
Bronze Dragon
Posts: 869
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Post by Doppel on May 11, 2014 1:05:41 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, Seziel!
While I understand the need for a "mature section" where one could talk about grown up things (without the pornographic things as you say), there are a few issues.
1. Age Lockout/Community Fracture: How do we define maturity, or how mature or old enough to participate in that forum? Do we base them by age? Do we have a trial by invite? Or by request to approve on a case by case basis? Further more, are those topics controversial enough to warrant fracturing the community into smaller segments (the ones we deem mature and then everyone else)?
2. What topics are deemed to be mature? We had many (from perception) mature conversations in the main forums. How much "maturity" is required to make it not fit on the main sections and require a separated selective section? And if it is more mature than what would be allowed on the main sections, would it allowed by the Forum Rules and Proboards Host Rules?
That's pretty much my questions.
(Also, I don't think the Admin Panel has abilities to let members in and out of sections individually. Hm.)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 16:24:39 GMT
Seziel I agree with you wholeheartedly, it is about time I think an idea like yours was implemented. This place has been swarmed with children, which leaves people who are interested in deep and significant conversations unable to interact with otherd on equal levels. It's a shame the staff thinks otherwise, and its hilarious that they should bring up the rules written by someone who has left this place a long time ago.
Ahh well, maybe next time.
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Calico
- Therian - Standard Animal
Deinonychus
grey ghost
Posts: 379
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Post by Calico on May 11, 2014 18:08:08 GMT
While I can see where both sides are coming from, I too think that an idea similar to what Seziel has requested would be a good addition. Those who desire a section to talk with the other members who are more mature in nature and able to relate to one another should be able to do so without being harassed by those who are more immature. Mature topics are often having to be restrained due to younger members being on the site, a place in which more mature topics could be discussed without worry about the younger members would be a positive addition to the site, in my opinion.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 18:46:27 GMT
I would honestly love for something like this to be implemented. A lot of the newer younger members are a bit to "jumpy" for my tastes. It is difficult to have an in depth discussion when there are one sentence posts. I know people of all ages are capable of the one sentence post, but it seems far more common among the younger members. I miss what this forum used to be. Before Teen Wolf, and before being otherkin and therian was a fad. I do think having a more mature section would give the older/more mature members a section to get away from the hyperness of the youths.
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Kasumi Noxumbra
- Otherkin - Animal Mix
Mythical Beast Spectral Draconic Wolf Hybrid
Just don't know what to do........every effort almost feels wasted
Posts: 2,441
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Post by Kasumi Noxumbra on May 11, 2014 19:18:40 GMT
I think this would probably still be possible with a ranking system, but we'd need to go to the "Categories & Boards" editor in the admin > structure section, create a new board of course, then under the permissions edit we would have to basically set it up like so:"Who can view the board..." Setting- Custom Only members with the minimum rank: Setting- (This is where we could set the ranking system.) Except members in the groups: Setting- N/A (This would probably be left alone since its set up to keep groups out, or at least I think that's what it means.) "Who can access the board..." Setting- Custom Only members with the minimum rank: Setting- (This is where we could set the ranking system.) Except members in the groups: Setting- N/A "Who can create threads on the board..." Setting- Custom Only members with the minimum rank: Setting- (This is where we could set the ranking system.) And members in the groups: Setting- N/A Except members in the groups: Setting- N/A "Who can reply to threads on the board..." Setting- Custom Only members with the minimum rank: Setting- (This is where we could set the ranking system.) And members in the groups: Setting- N/A Except members in the groups: Setting- N/A "Who can create polls on the board..." Setting- Custom or Staff (I'm not sure on that one.) Only members with the minimum rank: Setting- (This is where we could set the ranking system.) And members in the groups: Setting- N/A Except members in the groups: Setting- N/A So I think that's how it could be done, after thinking about it overnight. I know a lot of the new members are going to complain but I believe that it will just go to show which of us are mature and which aren't. lol No offense to any of the younger/newer members though. You guys are still nice and I like you guys. Anyways, still not sure how would we do the decision of who is mature enough to get into the ranking system for this board. I would assume we would want to have a minimum post at least. Maybe around 10 or so? Feel free to give your thoughts/opinions on this. n_n
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TwoFox
- Otherkin - Multiple System
Kitsune
Meh >.>
Posts: 493
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Post by TwoFox on May 13, 2014 3:40:51 GMT
The problem with implementing a ranking system, or at least from what I've heard, is that on other forums there have been some problems with some members given a higher ranking looking down upon or acting superior to he newer members of lower rank. Not saying that would be a problem but there is always the chance somebody might try to use their rank to throw more weight around. Then there's the issue of determining how exactly rank should be determined, be it karma, number of posts, length of time active, or have the mods meet and decide. Not that it's a bad idea at all, it's simply that establishing a ranking system might potentially give some people a feeling of superiority over others of lower rank which could lead to problems. I'm not shooting the idea down, I think it's a great plan, it's just establishing system like that has the potential to create problems.
I am more in favor of having the forum be determined by age and strict rules be put in place in that section that would ban the sort of things that you guys are worried about being posted with some rules that if broken would have the added repercussion of being permanently banned from that section.
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Kasumi Noxumbra
- Otherkin - Animal Mix
Mythical Beast Spectral Draconic Wolf Hybrid
Just don't know what to do........every effort almost feels wasted
Posts: 2,441
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Post by Kasumi Noxumbra on May 13, 2014 4:03:20 GMT
TwoFox
Yeah I hear you there. I think if we did implement the rank system and such, we'd only put people on one rank and not use the rest, so that way no one would be a higher ranking than another would be. So if anyone was to join the rank system to be allowed into the board, then they'd all be whatever number of stars for rank. If that makes any sense. I do agree that determining how rank would be issued is gonna be difficult. One of those things that all the mods would have to meet and decide. I know one of the rules to disallow throwing weight around, would basically follow the same rule of the chat about staff members.
But yeah, I think the rules could also be amended to warn new/young/immature members against certain things and if they don't abide by those rules, then they can get banned for a week or so. Unfortunately as far as I know, we can't just ban someone from a certain section. Its either get banned temporarily or permanently. Either way we'll figure something out.
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TwoFox
- Otherkin - Multiple System
Kitsune
Meh >.>
Posts: 493
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Post by TwoFox on May 13, 2014 4:11:38 GMT
Would it be possible to not have a person's rank visible? Allow the forum to allow access to people of a certain rank, but not have it displayed? That should prevent most of the problems and simply make it a case of whether you're allowed in the adult section or not based on criteria clearly outlined in rules that would be established?
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Kasumi Noxumbra
- Otherkin - Animal Mix
Mythical Beast Spectral Draconic Wolf Hybrid
Just don't know what to do........every effort almost feels wasted
Posts: 2,441
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Post by Kasumi Noxumbra on May 13, 2014 4:16:55 GMT
TwoFox
Maybe, I'll have to see and check with Doppel. I've never done anything with the ranking system and I'm not entirely sure he has either. I know under the "Except these groups" and "And members in these groups" could possibly work, but then again that would be allowing only certain groups to get into it. *thinks for a moment* Of course, there is always the way that Doppel made the secondary "Standard Animal" grouping. We could probably make secondary groupings like that which would allow members to still view and such in the board. Still lies the problem of trying to decide on maturity levels and such to get in those groupings, but at least no one would be able to see if another was able to do anything with that board. That may work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 7:14:59 GMT
I think what seziel ment was somewhere were the "childishness" of younger members aren't and where honesty is spoken without having emojis or any "fun-talk". I get the need to have that but I have to disagree. This is for my point of view similar to discrimination in a sense, plus what is actually classified as mature, I know 14 year olds who are more mature than 20 year olds. It all depends on how the person is not just their age. And with a ranking system it can easily make the feeling of inequality or like on other forums where they isolate themselves from the forum and you loose the unity in a forum.
Its nice to have wise & old share their knowledge with each other, at the end of the day you might learn as much from a 13 year old than a 20 year old. And I don't understand the censorship talk, people on this website are at least 13 years of age and therefore qualify to being shown different topics. If you want a deep conversation have a look around the forum, I bet you can find many adults and send messages and group talks with them. The need to make the younger ones who are still learning being left out of that knowledge in public is just unfair.
I think getting the whole rank system up will just make the already awesome unity between the members broken, suddenly others are probably going to be seen as 'more wise/more experience' and it will just cause uneasiness. Make good use of the message section, you can add as much adults as you want for in depth conversations.
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Thalahazara
- Otherkin - Extraterrestrial or Metaphysical
Extraterrestrial Extraterrestrial Reptile
Hexapedal reptile
Posts: 465
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Post by Thalahazara on May 13, 2014 7:35:58 GMT
Arara, I think you missed what they meant by mature. They weren't talking flesh age specific... but most of the time maturity matches their age, and I think that's the vibe you're catching. Yes, there are those 13 going on 20 people, and I'm sure they'd be included into the mature section if it were created.
You're a little bit newer, and so you don't really know or see it, but there are many members gone or lurking because they don't always want to have to... I have to say "deal with" (for lack of a better term the younger or less mature members all the time. The site is already fractured, but many believe that it will bring/keep the mature members and thus help the others find their ways.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 8:50:04 GMT
Arara, I think you missed what they meant by mature. They weren't talking flesh age specific... but most of the time maturity matches their age, and I think that's the vibe you're catching. Yes, there are those 13 going on 20 people, and I'm sure they'd be included into the mature section if it were created. You're a little bit newer, and so you don't really know or see it, but there are many members gone or lurking because they don't always want to have to... I have to say "deal with" (for lack of a better term the younger or less mature members all the time. The site is already fractured, but many believe that it will bring/keep the mature members and thus help the others find their ways. @ Thalahazara Thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding From what I understood, I thought I understood they were going to start blocking out the younger users. I understand though though if they don't want to deal with a few who are a bit more, "teen wolf fans" than therians. But blocking those people from a particular part of the forum would be wrong, since this website is for sharing information. if they could still view it and have some other place for themselves to comment made for the younger users that would be convenient on both angles Its a tricky situation though for who would be able to view it and who won't for both sides. The whole ranking thing is going to cause a lot more trouble than its worth, I suggest there should be a separate section for the older members and also for the younger members, and the creator of each thread in that sector receives requests for someone to comment on their thread. For example if someone wants to have a debate on if earths real (just a random idea I pulled out) they can accept answers they believe are relevant for the thread and also make other people owners, who don't need to request permission. I think that would be a better solution than the whole ranking system, I think it will start the whole superiority TwoFox said
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 22:13:41 GMT
I think what seziel ment was somewhere were the "childishness" of younger members aren't and where honesty is spoken without having emojis or any "fun-talk". I get the need to have that but I have to disagree. This is for my point of view similar to discrimination in a sense, plus what is actually classified as mature, I know 14 year olds who are more mature than 20 year olds. It all depends on how the person is not just their age. And with a ranking system it can easily make the feeling of inequality or like on other forums where they isolate themselves from the forum and you loose the unity in a forum. Its nice to have wise & old share their knowledge with each other, at the end of the day you might learn as much from a 13 year old than a 20 year old. And I don't understand the censorship talk, people on this website are at least 13 years of age and therefore qualify to being shown different topics. If you want a deep conversation have a look around the forum, I bet you can find many adults and send messages and group talks with them. The need to make the younger ones who are still learning being left out of that knowledge in public is just unfair. I think getting the whole rank system up will just make the already awesome unity between the members broken, suddenly others are probably going to be seen as 'more wise/more experience' and it will just cause uneasiness. Make good use of the message section, you can add as much adults as you want for in depth conversations. The ranking system will be based on Karma, so if you have low karma that is your fault. Someone with low karma is someone who has been acting foolish. I do agree with you but this is far from discrimination. A ranking system with Karma has to do with how the person reacts towards another's post and how they react to another's messages in the chat. This system will make it easy for other members to see who is not so serious and tends to cause problems. This is a Otherkin/Therian community, where people can be themselves and express themselves without having people judge them. I've made a couple of comments in the messages and have gotten negative feedback from people in that chat. The messages I sent through the chat wasn't even suppose to be opinionated based and I still received negative feedback. A section where low Karma ranked members cannot go will be ideal for the people who take Therian/Otherkin beliefs seriously and would like to express their ideas without having other people spew acid on their suggestions or posts. I have spoken to the admins and they have explained your very thought, that maturity isn't brought on by age. That is why some of us are altering my original post so that everyone who is serious about that is at least 13 and older can enjoy the "possible" unmade section and won't have to worry about negative feedback from others. Of course there are rules to work out and systems to work with, but I just wanted to let you know that it wasn't a discriminatory towards anyone. In this case it will breathe new life into the forum. The entire forums is suppose to be a place where people can unwind, but in the past 4-5 years I've been here I've seen some pretty mean and nasty remarks towards others about their kin type. I myself have received bad comments from people telling me my kin type didn't exist and shouldn't exist and they didn't even say that it was an opinion. Most of the negative feedback given from what I've seen are people trying to prove facts to others. Since we can't filter immaturity, giving a section where people can talk maturely and be themselves is easier to regulate. If say someone received negative karma and did not see it as fair, they can have it repealed and the situation at hand looked over. I do apologize if I was a little late on the comment I didn't see the clear up.
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Werecat
- Otherkin - Anthropomorph
Feline
Posts: 228
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Post by Werecat on May 13, 2014 23:28:38 GMT
My two cents on the topic at large:
I think an “adult” or “mature” section is unnecessary. As long as a topic is legitimate and is discussed in a civil and proper manner, there doesn’t need to be an age litmus test because there should be no embargo on information---especially if that’s the mission statement of this site. Furthermore, nothing we discuss is anything secret from someone who is 13, and if you are not 13, you can’t register, so it’s ultimately a moot point. Furthermore, I agree with Doppel---what is categorized as mature, and by which filter is it run through? As mentioned above, I’ve met thirty-somethings with a mentality and disposition of a 5-year old, and I’ve met tweens who surprise me with wisdom beyond their years. So where's the divide?
As for language, I’d rather not see f-bombs or crass language dropped every other word. It’s pointless, and people can simply learn civility, restraint, and respect in the use of language.
Finally, ranking or karma is lame. We had it before, it was abused, and now it’s gone. There’s always that person who posts two word “Me too” replies to pump up their post count (as if that means anything), and there’s always those people who will give either karma to their friends akin to Farcebook likes, or smite people they disagree with out of pettiness because they can’t articulate a rebuttal to a debate, so that is equally futile. TwoFox also hits the nail on the head, because always, always, always ranking devolves into superiority complexes.
The point of this site is to offer cogent information and to explore Therianthropy, it’s not a tackle box with different compartments to selectively dole out knowledge or experience to only to those who fit a certain criteria. If it can’t be equally accessed by all, then what’s the point of having a public board in the first place?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 23:48:05 GMT
My two cents on the topic at large: I think an “adult” or “mature” section is unnecessary. As long as a topic is legitimate and is discussed in a civil and proper manner, there doesn’t need to be an age litmus test because there should be no embargo on information---especially if that’s the mission statement of this site. Furthermore, nothing we discuss is anything secret from someone who is 13, and if you are not 13, you can’t register, so it’s ultimately a moot point. Furthermore, I agree with Doppel---what is categorized as mature, and by which filter is it run through? Also as mention above, I’ve met thirty-somethings with a mentality and disposition of a 5-year old, and I’ve been tweens who surprise me with wisdom beyond their years. So where the divide? As for language, I’d rather not see f-bombs or crass language dropped every other word. It’s pointless, and people can simply learn civility, restraint, and respect in the use of language. Finally, ranking or karma is lame. We had it before, it was abused, and now it’s gone. There’s always that person who posts “Me too” replies to pump up their post count as if that means anything, and there’s always those people who will give either karma to their friends akin to Farcebook likes, or smite people they disagree with out of pettiness because they can’t articulate a rebuttal to a debate, so that is also futile. TwoFox also hits the nail on the head, because always, always, always ranking devolves into superiority complexes. The point of this site is to offer cogent information and to explore Therianthropy, it’s not a tackle box with different compartments to selectively dole out knowledge or experience to only to those who fit a certain criteria. If it can’t be equally accessed by all, then what’s the point of having a public board in the first place? As said in my earlier reply, the topic has been revised. If anything the whole forums should be like that, but it would be very hard to do so considering anyone can sign up and start negativity immediately. It's not like the section is going to lock out everyone except a handful. I do understand where you are coming from. The topic will only be locking out people who aren't serious about learning who they are. If anything the system will lock out fluff and those who love to shoot others down since the forum can't do that till its too late. Besides the system won't work as intended since there are restraints on programming the forum since its off of a host that only allows the forum to have certain materials to work with. All in all its is just a suggestion rather than an actual movement.
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TwoFox
- Otherkin - Multiple System
Kitsune
Meh >.>
Posts: 493
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Post by TwoFox on May 14, 2014 1:02:29 GMT
@seziel
Not to post a "me too" comment or anything but Werecat does have a point, the problem with a karma system is that it could be easily exploited and you might have people giving out karma simply for agreeing with them and turn it into something akin to a like button on facebook. The idea of a system like that sounds good but if you have everybody handing out karma to one another eventually you'll end up with a mature section with every single person from the forum in it.
I think honestly the only way to really create an adult section is to create a board that can only be accessed by the adult members of the board in which all rules of the forum still apply and additional rules might be created and enforced for the section, and have the ability to access this board be restricted to people under a certain age and also to individuals with a warning percentage. It seems a bit harsh but any other way could cause some members to see it as a sort of VIP section, which isn't what it's intended to be. The warning percentage restriction would keep the individuals who are intent on bashing other people out of the section.
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Kasumi Noxumbra
- Otherkin - Animal Mix
Mythical Beast Spectral Draconic Wolf Hybrid
Just don't know what to do........every effort almost feels wasted
Posts: 2,441
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Post by Kasumi Noxumbra on May 14, 2014 2:39:20 GMT
@thread
We don't have a Karma system anymore. That was done away with and replaced by badges in ProBoards last update, so us moderators had nothing to do with that change. The ranking system that I was referring to is actually something that moderators/admins would have to give out, not members. So right now this brings us really to the "How do we decide on mature members for the custom ranking system" that I mentioned before. As we all know, there are some members who are very mature, but are younger than 20 years old, so it wouldn't be fair to count them out of this system just because of age. Another thing, yeah sure there are going to be members who are get mad about them not being able to be in the board, but stuff like this happens everyday and they need to just get over it. It's not like we'll be cutting them completely from the site. Also about the viewing threads on that board, we could still have it set to where all members could view and access the board, but we'd leave the create threads and replies at custom with the ranking setting enabled.
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Cayo
- Therian - Standard Animal
Cladotherian -- Canine
Cladotherian, and loving it!!!
Posts: 163
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Post by Cayo on May 14, 2014 3:00:13 GMT
While I'm mostly neutral on the matter of having an adult section and can see where everyone is coming from, it feels to me like this would become more of an "adult table, kids table" situation. And even if we can decide on who's mature (not based off of age), that feeling would still stay. What I mean is that by segregating the "mature" from the "immature", the "adult table" will get more of the insight and deeper conversations and can be beneficial for those at that "table to see; and to relate to and guide a therian to where they need to go. On the other side, the "kid's table" seems like it'll be full of the typical discussions of not-so insightful topics. I don't think it would be super helpful, because it looks to me as if the only good debates will happen in the adult section and there wont be any help for the not so adult. If I'm getting my meaning across. It's as if we're taking the elite and grouping them so they can have more meaningful connections and letting the immature ones run amuck with no solid guidance or help for their own therianthrope. At least to me, it feels a tiny bit elitist, but I DO understand why one would be for it, so don't get me wrong.
These are my own thoughts though, and correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding something!
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