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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 8:42:09 GMT
Hey guys, I need some advice. There is this artist on DA I personally find to be amazing. But he's got some serious mental issues. Where to start. I discovered this guy through some satire images. He is incredibly but-hurt (I mean VERY but-hurt.) He blocks every single person he assumes "trolls" him. If it's something against his work then he'll block. He even blocked me when I didn't even speak to him (maybe because I'm an Anti-Wolf member) I managed to get him to unblock me so I could talk to him. It's a little sad actually, he seems to have no knowledge of the internet. I don't know if he doesn't want to understand or if he has a difficult time understanding. Another thing, he's from Japan. What does this have to do with anything? First off, he might just have a difficult time understanding simple grammer which might explain why it's I'm having a tough time describing it to him. He might also be going through a lot of stress in his life due to the recent events in Japan. But take a look at this and see why I think he needs to learn critisism. O.K. Take a look at this image. Oh my god, this is so amazing, I love this pic so much! It shows a very good understanding of anatomy. Alright keep in mind that was one of his earliest works. Now take a look at this. This is bassicly what he does now. about 80% of his gallery is this same exact generic wolf that appears to be on steroids. Does anybody see a problem with this or is it just me? I personally find it disgusting. He even killed wolf link like this. D: So bassicly he's starting to overkill his anatomy and starting to only draw this same wolf. It adds no veriety and it's such a terrible merry-sue for a wolf that makes no sense. Alright now this is another problem. Your familiar with wolfaboos, correct? Well, they seem to enjoy people like this. People who love to see the wolf over-glorified. He seemed to make a lot of fans by doing this and now I think he's way too much into his ego to listen to reason. What would probably be the best thing to say to this guy. He seems very sensitive but I don't want him to go through this unnecessary anxiety that a few harmless parodies or some people who want to give advice, or hey, even trolls. He just seems incredibly depressed right now and I feel sorry for him. But the thing is is that he's the one putting all of this stress on himself. He seems very good at heart and it just feels like a big shame shame seeing him like this. I guess if you live in Japan you might understand this a little better so I would definitely listen to you. What are Japans norms and morals and how does it effect one's personality. There's a lot to how I'm trying to help this guy but I do want to see what everyone thinks. And if you know him please don't mention his name.
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House of Chimeras
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Post by House of Chimeras on Jun 3, 2011 16:40:46 GMT
I don’t see a problem with it actually. We’ve seen his work before but are really rather neutral about it. We don’t see a problem with drawing animals in a fantasy sense no more than we think characters like Bugs Bunny or draws of a Pegasus are bad. Its not a real wolf, but the artist himself states he can and could draw a wolf realistic but chooses not to. I wondered consider art like this disgusting either. I love realism, but I don’t hate fantasy. So what if art is over glorifying a certain animal? There is a difference between drawing in a certain style for certain reasons and actually over glorifying the actual physical animal itself. The wolf and the traditional samurai, as far as one close friend of ours who use to live in Japan and still keeps tabs there, are very big symbols to the country (that’s why anime is full of both in stylized ways). I won’t be surprised if that had to do with some of his motive to draw certain things. We’ve seen the so called ‘parodies’ but I some of them I hardly would call harmless. Hardly. I‘d chance it call it bulling and as a future teacher I personally don’t condone it in the least. - a little bit of everyone but mostly Earth Listener and Mist Weaver
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Doppel
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Post by Doppel on Jun 3, 2011 16:46:19 GMT
The wolf?
He's from Japan, the wolf is anime influenced, Japan has samurais and Japanese wolves....
Looks pretty a-OK to me.
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DrakoEthnAegis
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Post by DrakoEthnAegis on Jun 3, 2011 18:03:34 GMT
The pic Looks alright to me. Perhaps, he could do with a bit more variety. But, I can see why he would want to draw the way he does with most of his pictures. Could be he wants to symbolise his country, could be he likes that style of art and chooses to draw it. Could be a number of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 18:22:02 GMT
I don’t see a problem with it actually. We’ve seen his work before but are really rather neutral about it. We don’t see a problem with drawing animals in a fantasy sense no more than we think characters like Bugs Bunny or draws of a Pegasus are bad. Its not a real wolf, but the artist himself states he can and could draw a wolf realistic but chooses not to. I wondered consider art like this disgusting either. I love realism, but I don’t hate fantasy. So what if art is over glorifying a certain animal? There is a difference between drawing in a certain style for certain reasons and actually over glorifying the actual physical animal itself. The wolf and the traditional samurai, as far as one close friend of ours who use to live in Japan and still keeps tabs there, are very big symbols to the country (that’s why anime is full of both in stylized ways). I won’t be surprised if that had to do with some of his motive to draw certain things. We’ve seen the so called ‘parodies’ but I some of them I hardly would call harmless. Hardly. I‘d chance it call it bulling and as a future teacher I personally don’t condone it in the least. Alright, let's say you don't care how his work actually looks. He doesn't know how the internet works. He comes off as being incredibly but-hurt and childish. If he simply ignored it then the problem wouldn't even occur. If he took the critisism like a man then the problem wouldn't even occur. And the parodies that he got rid were harmless. He complained the the user KidateCalf was threatining him however he was making a harmless parody. I don't care what you consider harmless but I would suggest taking a look at this before saying anything. The parodies done on his art did not promote the killing of him. And also take a look at this and read the description. Kidate did not attack him but offered a valid point he should consider. But he would probably end up reporting his work once again and just like YouTube taking about every false flag (some good people I know lost their account that way) DA does the same. But what does that do? It starts having people making fun of him for failing to read the guidelines. As I said, I'm just trying to help him understand how the internet works and his current situation.
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House of Chimeras
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Post by House of Chimeras on Jun 3, 2011 20:39:02 GMT
I don’t care what his art looks like to begin with. However, you stated yourself you do care about what his art looks like from the realistic style to the animistic exaggerated style.
We’ve never had any run in with him so we have no clue about how he acts. Course, given how much parody there is of him, regardless of if they are trying to be helpful or just poke fun at him, I won’t be surprised if he’s just ’trigger happy’ and on edge due to all the focus he’s getting from people wanting to help him seriously or just crack jokes.
There is a difference between ’hate’ and poking fun at people. The art you linked to is simply a parody (though I still find it somewhat out of good taste, but that’s just because I don’t understand parody art by nature rather than any other reason). I’ve never seen it before. The art we were referring to was a picture we remember seeing a long time back that was of a headshot of his character all overly lumpy with a ’stupid expression’ on its face similar to the ‘derpwolf’ which we found rather insulting.
Because we don’t have a real insiders clue to what is going on outside of the a slight amount of artwork we’ve seen - we can’t really give any real advice.
Edit to add an after thought -
Flagging art needless just because you don’t like the content is one thing. Then again, he might be flagging the art because he may view it as stealing his character which is trademarked to him. Course, me might not actually have a trademark on his character at all and might be misunderstanding how copyright and trademark laws work. I hardly do myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 21:44:50 GMT
@ebesu
I've seen his wolves all over dA and I'm quite impressed with it. I absolutely have no problem seeing the same type of wolf having a lot of muscle. It may be exagerated, but it's drawn nicely and what I call, in my opinion, tasteful. The muscle mass is more closely resembled to human, but that's his style of art (not like it matters because he did clearly state that the wolves are fantasy). He also does state under his profile that he does intentionally choose to draw wolves with large muscle mass.
But lets get onto your point. You don't like the over-musclular "generic" wolf that he has in his gallery. Does it really matter of what the artist chooses/doesn't choose to draw? I find it unique and interesting; a quadrupled wolf with a muscle build having Samurai attire. Since you don't like it then, what does it matter? You have a choice whether to like it or not as well as a choice to look at it or not.
In all honesty, I don't think he draws wolves just to get some fans. I think he draws wolves because he likes them. As far as his ego, well, I in my opinion, I'd suspect that after a while of people constantly bashing him for his work, I'd imagine that he's been pushed around so much that enough is enough. He doesn't want to have to deal with constant harrassment so he has to go to desparate measures. If he wants to draw a certain way, then why should people foce him to draw how he likes to?
As far as the parodies go, well, some may seem to be "harmless" to certain people, but for others, it can be hurtful. Some have a hide as thick as stone while others as fragile as a single strand of hair (I appoligize if you didn't understand what I ment. I tried to make it sound like that people have different levels of sensitivity; "thick skinned".). Also, harmless parodies can lead to other people (other than the artist that had drawn the parody) bullying and promote words that would be more offensive and hurtful.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 1:12:27 GMT
@chimera I'm glad to hear there's another side who actually is threatining him. I might be able to talk to him again if I can get him to talk. @misthowler Sorry, I do apoligize, I think I got a little too emotional. He is entitled to his own opinion and he's allowed to enjoy what he does. What's actually the major problem is that he's getting but-hurt. He depict himself as an easy target and now he's getting picked on too much. I want to be able to describe to him what it means to be "but-hurt" because right now, nothing is going to stop. It's very hard to make any friends if you say everybody who has a different opinion is a "troll." It's tough to open yourself to friends that way. I mean, I know Kidate is really fed up with wolves but do you know what, he's a really nice guy I like to visit. I want him to understand that. Now this is what I have to say about the fans. He started off DA with having a variety of very nice looking pics. But then he got some fans which I believe that a number of them are wolfaboos who just love seeing a "strong" wolf. Then he started drawing nothing but that same character over and over with the occasional not a wolf drawing. I mean, you don't change like that, so it's bound to be for something. Something is telling me fame because of how egotistic he got. Not a single negative comment is allowed on his profile which is very sad IMO. And I kind of see your point. However I do think the person that the parody is for is only hurting himself in that matter. Just a matter of taking the joke too seriously. Once again that is my opinion. And to add to my original post. A Deviant told me that a person of good heart could easily buy himself into fame. But they will later pay for it. That's what I felt happened to him. He started off as a very nice person, then the fans came. Now he's the running joke on DA. It's just how I view the situation. --update-- Ehh, I think this something I need to handle myself. But I think I actually got some information off of this. Thank you. If anyone wants to add anything feel free.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 8:40:07 GMT
I have to admit that I am not a fan of real life animal drawings, regardless if they are digitally made or drawn. I really love and admire drawings that incorporate human and non human qualities to create an animal with unique looks. Anthromorphic artwork for instance, if done correctly.
About this artist you are talking about. I haven't had any contact with him so I can't say for sure if he's got mental issues or not, but my feelings tell me that he's just fine. Obviously being Japanese will have it's limitations on communication and their culture is very, very different to it's western counterparts. The only thing I don't like is that he doesn't take criticism well. That's actually enough for me to venomously dislike an individual.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 6:43:37 GMT
I'm actually a friend of his on Deviantart and I do talk to him from time to time, and personally I love his style. I think it definitely stands out from a lot of the loads of wolf stuff you see on deviantart, many of them being hellacious sparkle wolves. And aren't you being a bit harsh by saying is work is disgusting? If you come to him like that, of course he's going to be a bit butt hurt. Saying his art is disgusting is being blatantly rude, not giving constructive criticism. And to be honest, if he is getting butt-hurt about criticism and parodies and such, that's his problem. He doesn't need others to resolve this issue for him. It's just something that he'll have to grow out of himself. We all are entitled to our opinions, but if you don't like how someone's art style is, then don't make the artist change their ways. Trying to make an artist change how they draw is like forcing a hard core Catholic to become a Wiccan (no offense is to be made, this is purely supposed to be an exaggerated example). So just move on to someone else whose style interests you more rather than trying to force someone who has clearly put a lot of time and effort into his pieces to change his ways.
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Doppel
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Post by Doppel on Jun 5, 2011 12:22:02 GMT
Saying his art is disgusting is being blatantly rude, not giving constructive criticism. This. If I was trying to make a point to people, especially if it would be negative to them, I would do it politely and slowly to try to get them to understand. Also, ebesu, I have seen the piece you linked to on dA about how his big wolves cannot walk. Trying to put a character who is obviously fantasy and anime in a real world environment is nonsensical. What's next, you trying to demonstrate Anvil Physics, the running speed of Road Runner and the safety issues of Acme products in the real world?
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DrakoEthnAegis
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Post by DrakoEthnAegis on Jun 5, 2011 13:50:51 GMT
I actually like his art. I'm not a fan of overly muscular, and I do understand the need for Constructive criticism. But, I also know that if he has a character he particularly likes, he'll draw it more often. I know I do. XD I draw different forms for the same character a lot.
He does need constructive criticism though, cause it helps an artist grow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 7:56:35 GMT
Saying his art is disgusting is being blatantly rude, not giving constructive criticism. This. If I was trying to make a point to people, especially if it would be negative to them, I would do it politely and slowly to try to get them to understand. Also, ebesu, I have seen the piece you linked to on dA about how his big wolves cannot walk. Trying to put a character who is obviously fantasy and anime in a real world environment is nonsensical. What's next, you trying to demonstrate Anvil Physics, the running speed of Road Runner and the safety issues of Acme products in the real world? I was actually able to get him to talk to me again. And I at least made him understand opinion. I sent him a note explaining very slowly trying to help him understand the internet. I hope what I said didn't harm him though. I tried to be as nice as possible. And I know the comment I made was a little out of line. That was my fault for being too emotional. Thing was I never said anything to him and he blocked me. He also blocked a lot of people giving a simple critique. This is just very annoying IMO. Well, I'm awaiting the response now, I hope it's pleasant enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 16:14:09 GMT
I was actually able to get him to talk to me again. And I at least made him understand opinion. I sent him a note explaining very slowly trying to help him understand the internet. I hope what I said didn't harm him though. I tried to be as nice as possible. And I know the comment I made was a little out of line. That was my fault for being too emotional. Thing was I never said anything to him and he blocked me. He also blocked a lot of people giving a simple critique. This is just very annoying IMO. Well, I'm awaiting the response now, I hope it's pleasant enough. Really, don't you feel unwanted when someone blocks you for talking to them? I mean, if that happened to me the last thing I'll try and do is change their minds about it. I'd want people to enjoy talking to me without me having to put any effort behind it what so ever, if you know where I'm coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 21:29:15 GMT
Really, don't you feel unwanted when someone blocks you for talking to them? I mean, if that happened to me the last thing I'll try and do is change their minds about it. I'd want people to enjoy talking to me without me having to put any effort behind it what so ever, if you know where I'm coming from. No matter how annoyed I get at a person, I still respect them as human beings. If I'm able to help somebody learn then I feel that I've helped out. I don't like people living their lives not willing to learn anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 1:58:34 GMT
Maybe you should stick to simple words if he doesn't understand.
But on the otherhand, I think his artwork is pretty. It's his art, and i guess he can choose what he wants to do with it. As for the wolfaboo's, who cares? just don't pay to much attention to them. Everybody has some weird fandom every once in a while i guess.
and again, its JAPAN lol, crazy over buff things -that is normal there there. lol hell, look at dragon ball z. Lol!
considering what happened in japan, maybe that's why he is starting to draw this one specific character. Maybe he is making a story line or maybe he resembles or is used as a tool to relieve stress, (some character, to look forward to) idk lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 17:45:55 GMT
"This is bassicly what he does now. about 80% of his gallery is this same exact generic wolf that appears to be on steroids. Does anybody see a problem with this or is it just me? I personally find it disgusting. He even killed wolf link like this. D: So bassicly he's starting to overkill his anatomy and starting to only draw this same wolf. It adds no veriety and it's such a terrible merry-sue for a wolf that makes no sense."
Do you draw, Ebesu?
If you had said this to me, I wouldn't talk to you.
You can't tell someone how to draw, there is no RIGHT way to make art. (What is above is actually called trolling. You're going out of your way to make your opinion right.)
I've been studying Japan for a while, and there are a lot of pressures over there, even without all the natural disasters that have happened recently. I don't know how old he is, but there are a lot of assumptions put on men. They have to get good grades, usually get a desk job, and take care of their family. It's usually frowned upon by the family when a boy gets into drawing, instead of something like accounting. I would guess no one approves of him drawing where he lives. Of course, his family could be supportive. I've never met the guy.
I've been working on my own manga, and I haven't posted ANYTHING about it on Dev because I'm afraid the characters will be stolen. I have had people steal my art before, and I will not risk it with this; I want this manga to be published. And we don't know; he could be using these characters for a story, but just wanted to share their designs.
And I've noticed that the majority of people on Dev are not good people. I would suggest just turning comments off.
But if you want advice: Do you even know him? He probably doesn't want your help. It is nice of you to go out of your way to try and help him understand, but maybe you should try to be friends with him first before you try forcing 'advice' on him. If I was in his shoes, I would think you were controlling.
Also, I find myself getting sensitive to critique when I've spent 12 hours on a picture. Yes, I do need it, but when it's worded like you did above, it's offensive, not helpful. And I find that the majority of opinions are worded like that.
It would probably be better to offer to give advice on things like English, Dev, and ethics, and then just leave him alone. Let him come to you when he wants it, otherwise he won't listen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 22:22:44 GMT
@seric Well said, my friend.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 22:26:20 GMT
@ Sol Thanks. I wasn't sure if I was going too far there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 20:15:10 GMT
@seric To me you said exactly what needed to be said in the needed tone. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 17:37:34 GMT
@ Ebesu I found the artist. His art was on the front page of Dev today. I would hardly agree that he draws only the same wolf over and over again, and that they're all over-muscled I saw a huge variety, and I saw animals other than wolves, too. Tigers, for example. Also, this was pasted quite clearly on his page: "(Q) Must you study dog’s anatomy? Don’t you know wolf’s anatomy? (A) No. I know Anatomy. And I have studied it. Needless to say , it's all self-education. But I don’t intend to draw them realistic. I have always drawn “the Wolves” in the fantasy world, not “wolves” in the real world. Surely wolves I drew are too muscular. But I have always drawn them intentionally. It’s my intention, not my ignorance. This is my style. There are a lot of art styles in the world. If you get bad impression in my works, please don’t take notice of them." Also, his English seems pretty good to me. I don't really think he needs anybody's help with anything.
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